User:Hipcrime/wikimedia-office-2014-07-09

Session Start: Wed Jul 09 11:07:08 2014
Session Ident: #wikimedia-office
[11:07] * Now talking in #wikimedia-office
[11:07] * Topic is 'Organizations in Transition (Meeting topic: Human Resources Office Hour) | Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE) | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours'
[11:07] * Set by marktraceur!~marktrace@fsf/member/marktraceur on Wed Jul 09 11:01:58
[11:07] #wikimedia-office url is http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
[11:07] <marktraceur> kclau: Head on over to #mediawiki-i18n!
[11:07] <MissGayle> And sadly, I wouldn’t be able to answer any language engineering questions with any degree of specificity. :)
[11:07] <kclau> thanks, bye
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[11:09] <Finnegan> MissGayle: what kind of orientation has Lila been going through? I'm sort of picturing someone sitting her down in a classroom and being like "Ok *points to chart* THIS is the wikimedia community. *points to other chart* THIS is the WMF *points to blank space between charts* THIS is the communication lines you need to build."
[11:09] * kclau (3d12d199@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.18.209.153) has left #wikimedia-office
[11:09] <MissGayle> It’s been great having her here, and interesting to see how her presence is changing the way things are running at the Foundation. We’ve also done a redesign of the 6th floor to create room for more collaborative spaces.  Great question, Finnegan.
[11:09] <marktraceur> Yeah, I think I had asked her about the gap between the community and the Foundation a while ago.
[11:09] <MissGayle> She started by sitting in our quarterly reviews and meeting with her team and also the project managers. Various departments have designed various briefings for her.
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[11:11] <MissGayle> So Geoff covered what was on the table in regards to major legal issues, for example, and she spent some time learning about how we do our fundraising and grantmaking, and how that relates to the movement. I think the issue with orienting to the community - as we’ve all pointed out - is that it’s not just one community but extends across different languages and different wikis.
[11:11] <anonymous90210> how could that be addressed?
[11:11] <MissGayle> All the liaisons had a great meeting with Lila, and she had a lot of savvy questions about the gap.
[11:12] <anonymous90210> the gap? gendergap?
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[11:12] <Ironholds> comms gap, I assume
[11:13] <anonymous90210> comms?
[11:13] <MissGayle> gaps, plural, and Rachel DiCerbo’s department will also be oriented towards addressing that. I think the gap itself and what it is is a complicated question. It’s easy to say, “there’s a hole”, and harder to address what that looks like and to even understand the places gaps occur to think about strategies and organizational design and roles that would effectively address it.
[11:13] <marktraceur> MissGayle: Do you think the Foundation is still at a stage where a new ED should reasonably expect to talk to every single employee when they come in? I think we estimated it would take Lila something like a year to complete that task.
[11:13] <marktraceur> Either way, where do you think that line is?
[11:13] <Pine> marktraceur: her goal was to complete that in her first month, although I heard that wasn't accomplished
[11:13] <marktraceur> Pine: Decidedly not
[11:14] <Ironholds> She talked to me! And didn't immediately quit.
[11:14] <Ironholds> I'm as astonished as you are.
[11:14] <MissGayle> It will definitely take a long time. I think it’s a worthwhile endeavor as a starting place to get to know the organization. And things like that happen imperfectly. I don’t think I heard it as a goal for a month though.
[11:14] <MissGayle> And sorry marktraceur, I didn’t quite get your question. Which line?
[11:14] <MissGayle> and which either way?
[11:14] <jorm> I keep expecting her to reach under her jaw and peel away the rubber mask, revealing the Reptoid beneath.
[11:15] <marktraceur> MissGayle: The line where an ED shouldn't endeavour to meet *everyone*
[11:15] <marktraceur> Because it's a waste of time or would take too long.
[11:15] <MissGayle> But back to her orientation, that’s not going to be done for awhile. It takes new leaders at least 6 months to have a lay of the land.
[11:15] <Pine> That's too long IMO. In the military the standard is 1-3 months before new leaders start making changes.
[11:16] <MissGayle> I encouraged her to meet with everyone as teams, in addition to individuals - have an introduction to whole teams, and then to take her time. We’re still under 200 so that’s relatively small, though I want to emphasize “relatively".
[11:16] <Pine> And that is with a much bigger org in some cases
[11:16] <MissGayle> She’s starting to make changes already.
[11:16] <Bence> Any examples of the changes?
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[11:17] <MissGayle> But I would say that given the level of scale and complexity and all the things to wrap one’s brain about, onboarding earlier than 6 months (and depends what “fully onboarded”) looks like is too soon.
[11:17] <jorm> She's definitely focused on development and design.
[11:17] <jorm> i think it takes about a year to have a handle on how the foundation and the editor community work.
[11:17] <jorm> 1-3 months is barely enough time to get a desk settled.
[11:18] <MissGayle> She’s introducted quarterly goals tied to our annual plans for each of the C-levels, and we have a red-yellow-green dashboard.
[11:18] <Pine> This ties into an interesting discussion I was having yesterday about when it's appropriate to bring in outsiders to WMF and when it's best to go with insiders
[11:18] <Ironholds> yep. I just do R&D and I've been doing so since April, and I'm still finding landmines.
[11:18] <Ironholds> I can't imagine having 3 orders of magnitude more complexity and immediately knowing everything.
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[11:18] <Qcoder00> Todays topic?
[11:19] <MissGayle> That we track against, and her emphasis on being more metrics focused is coming into play. She’s introduced a couple changes in the way we look at new hires, for example, in adding a focus that interviewers should know when they bring in candidates what they would learn from those candiates.
[11:19] <marktraceur> Ironholds: That's why we have managers instead of a bunch of anarchy :)
[11:19] <Pine> In the military, people brought on board are usually insiders so 1-3 months may be relatively fast, and Lila is an outsider to WMF, so maybe 6 months is more realistic
[11:19] <marktraceur> As awesome as anarchy is. Free movies!!!!
[11:19] <jorm> this isn't the military, pine.
[11:19] <Pine> jorm: leadership is leadership, admittedly with many variations
[11:19] <Qcoder00> Hello, what was today's topic
[11:19] <Qcoder00> ?
[11:20] <marktraceur> Qcoder00: /topic
[11:20] <Pine> Qcoder00: Gayle's discussion of transition to Lila
[11:20] <MissGayle> It’s at the top of the page. We’re talking about organizations in transition, with some thoughts on leadership and onboarding at the moment.
[11:20] <Ironholds> Pine, eh, yes and no.
[11:20] <Qcoder00> Hello Ironholds
[11:20] <Pine> Oh, by the way, here's a good question
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[11:20] <Pine> MissGayle: how does WMF define leadership?
[11:20] <Ironholds> I suspect that a general is not used to the non-coms talking back quite so much ;p
[11:20] <jorm> leading a military organization is completely different than leading a technological company, or a non-profit, or . . . pretty much anything that's not military.
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[11:20] <Pine> Humans are humans anywhere
[11:21] <Ironholds> hey Qcoder00
[11:21] <jorm> i can tell you that if we got a "leader" who demanded immediate execution of orders with no questions asked (military style) that we'd all quit.
[11:21] <jorm> probably that day.
[11:21] <Ironholds> Pine, yes, but the skills needed to interact with them on scale are not dependent on 'humans are humans' - they're dependent on the degree of heirarchy and support, and the independence of thought afforded at each level in that heirarchy.
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[11:21] <jorm> so it's NOTHING like the military.
[11:21] <Qcoder00> Question for the panel:  What major issues does the incoming head think are a priority for the WMF?
[11:21] <MissGayle> She’s also created two cross-functional big initiatives around strategy and operations.
[11:21] <Ironholds> Military: heavily heirarchical, large support structure, little independent thought at low levels.
[11:21] <Ironholds> WMF: none of those things.
[11:22] <MissGayle> Product and strategy.
[11:22] <Pine> I think that is a bit of a stereotype, but let's return to the topic
[11:22] <mindspillage> The military's organizational design seems to be rather more suited to quick transitions.
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[11:22] <MissGayle> One huge aspect of leadership is creating and maintiaining the conditions for organizations to thrive.
[11:22] <Pine> mindspillage: I agree on that
[11:22] <Qcoder00> Oh and Ironholds as I have you, you wouldn't happen to have a good explanation of 'qualified privlige' as it to applies to blogs to hand would you?
[11:23] <marktraceur> Qcoder00: Bit off topic don't you think
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[11:23] <mindspillage> (and I don't think that makes it better: different enivronment with different demands and different drawbacks.)
[11:23] <Qcoder00> Ironholds: PM
[11:23] <Pine> mindspillage: I agree on that too
[11:23] <Qcoder00> marktraceur:  Apologies...
[11:23] <Ironholds> Qcoder00, afraid not. My brain is now filled with chi-squared tests, not law :/
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[11:24] <MissGayle> That means understanding the operating context for an organizational system, and guiding the organization in strategy and subsequent structure to take on the initiatives and operations relative to the organization’s mandate around spreading free knowledge via the websites.
[11:24] <Qcoder00> Question for the panel : Should incoming heads of orgnizations re-examine shrap practice under former heads?
[11:24] <Qcoder00> *sharp
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[11:24] <MissGayle> as opposed to dull practices? :)
[11:24] <Pine> sharp practice?
[11:25] <tommorris> I think Qcoder00 means Sharpie practice.
[11:25] <Pine> Whiteboard practices?
[11:25] <MissGayle> What’s Sharpie practice?
[11:25] <Ironholds> like, whether or not we're allowed permanent markers?
[11:25] <Ironholds> crap, we're not even allowed butter knives.
[11:25] <tommorris> Wikipedia is drafted in Sharpie before we write it in WikiText.
[11:25] <Ironholds> I wouldn't trust us with permanent markers
[11:25] <Qcoder00> Pine: As in 'No-one notices, so we wont' get caught if we screw up' type practice
[11:25] <MissGayle> We have eraseable markers for a reason. :)
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[11:26] * Ironholds hangs head in shame. Toby will get his whiteboard back in a week, I promise.
[11:26] <Pine> Qcoder00: you mean "bold" practice for the Foundation?
[11:26] <MissGayle> I’ve not had the experience of not being noticed, or that what the WMF does in generally goes unnoticed...
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[11:26] <Qcoder00> Pine : ROFL
[11:26] <MissGayle> So I’m a ilttle confused by the “no one notices, so we won’t get caught thing”, especially since everything we do is so public.
[11:26] <Pine> I am a little lost in this discussion too.
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[11:26] <Qcoder00> Well sometimes when an organisation gets a new head, things that wouldn't have been an issue under previous ones get re-examined.
[11:27] <Pine> Oh
[11:27] <Qcoder00> Like attitudes on copyright
[11:27] <Qcoder00> Like attitudes on acceptable image content and so on
[11:27] <Pine> Qcoder00: such as copyrighted images in ED presentations at monthly meetings? That bothered me when I saw it...
[11:28] <Qcoder00> Well there is that and so on
[11:28] <MissGayle> I think it depends on which ones are high priority to examine or not. There are things that she knows she has a mandate to move on by the board, and I’d guess that those would occupy a larger amount of her attention than not.
[11:28] <Pine> May I ask a question that I am afraid is going to sound pointy?
[11:28] <MissGayle> And it’s a dicey thing to open up all the past disuputes in addition to all the current ongoing issues, and the future strategic ones. At that point, it’s a matter of bandwidth and where high leverage places are for her to get involved.
[11:29] <MissGayle> I’m not going to say no. :)
[11:29] <Pine> Heh
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[11:29] <Pine> Well I have been waiting for quite a while for Lila to respond to inquiries on her talk page, since the end of May, and she has been encouraging people to ask questions there, yet she's not responding. This is a little confusing.
[11:29] <Qcoder00> As some of you know there's a big fuss about Transparency in the UK at the moment
[11:29] <Pine> I have even asked Kathrine who said she would ping Lila
[11:30] <Pine> Do you know what's happening with this disconnect?
[11:30] <jorm> "being busy"
[11:30] <MissGayle> She’s got a TON on her plate, Pine. Multiply that one request by a few hundred people.
[11:30] <Finnegan> Pine: I have not gotten the impression Lila responds publicly/substantively to anything, whether on talk or on mailing list
[11:30] <Qcoder00> so my question was partly related to whether the WMF and Wikimedia projects need to examine if it been less than transparent in the past
[11:30] <Qcoder00> *it has
[11:30] <MissGayle> And I also think she’s in listen and learn mode, so she may not yet have an answer.
[11:31] <jorm> If the executive director spent all her time answering email and talk pages from anyone and everyone, there would be nothing else she could do.
[11:31] <Pine> It's confusing when someone says "use my talk page" and then doesn't respond for a month
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[11:31] <MissGayle> We need to ongoingly look at the way we operate to continually be more transparent. Transparency is actually pretty hard.
[11:31] <mindspillage> Qcoder00: fwiw, in my experience the ED has had not very much involvement at all in copyright issues; unless it is a really fundamental issue I doubt it will take much of Lila's attention either.
[11:31] <Qcoder00> BTW Not related to this office hours, but is there a way of requesting a specfic topic gets discussed in office hours?
[11:31] <anonymous90210> transparency is hard?
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[11:32] <jorm> transparancy is incredibly difficult and requires a lot of time and overhead.
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[11:32] <anonymous90210> i see
[11:32] <brion> [We traditionally thought that transparency was easy — do everything openly and *boom* transparency. But that’s actually not easy — things we do on mailing lists or talk pages or meta only reach a tiny fraction of affected audience.]
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[11:32] <MissGayle> Yeah - because in an online world, it requires the extra act of sorting and publishing things. It’s worthwhile and worth doing - but for instance, putting the annual plan up for review by community input took an incredible amount of organizatoinal overhead.
[11:32] * eagle_ (628dc6f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.141.198.243) has joined #wikimedia-office
[11:32] <MissGayle> exactly.
[11:32] <Finnegan> I'm going to say something really awkward now and note that Lila's partner seems to be handling all the community engagement between the two of them. I know that's not really an HR issue, but it's quite a contrast when questions to Lila go unanswered by Wil is out on the front lines trying to experience everything
[11:32] <Finnegan> *but Wil
[11:32] <Qcoder00> brion: There is also stuff that can't for legal reasons be public
[11:32] <MissGayle> It’s definitely awkward.
[11:33] <anonymous90210> Wil isn't acting in any official capacity though
[11:33] <MissGayle> Wil is his own person. He is not handling them all between Lila and the community.
[11:33] <MissGayle> He’s engaging completely of his own free will and in the way he can and with whatever capacity he has.
[11:33] <Pine> I am trying to take that view, but he really is playing with fire.
[11:33] <Qcoder00> Slightly off topic question, Is there a way to ask for a specfic topic to brought up in office hours?
[11:34] <eagle_> Still Wil has managed to raise a number of  important issues that are not addressed on-wiki in a satisfactory way.
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[11:34] <MissGayle> Lila’s capacity, as earlier noted, is differently constrained, but i want to reiterate that he’s not involved in any official way with WMF.
[11:34] <MissGayle> And if people can raise important issues healthily, that’s a good sign, in general.
[11:34] <jorm> "In a satisfactory way" depends on the viewer.
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[11:34] <Finnegan> MissGayle: Oh I realize that. I guess my point is more that we saw two people, both inexperienced as wikimedians, come in at the same time, and only one of them is engaging with the projects themselves, and I wish both were.
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[11:35] <jorm> many issues i have about the way commons works have not been addressed in a satisfactory way from my point of view.  but from the administration on commons, they have been.
[11:35] <eagle_> In your opinion, what is the best way to improve the quality of the WMF staff?
[11:35] <MissGayle> duly noted, Finnegan. :)
[11:35] <Pine> Let me also make a general comment, which is that so far in general I feel Lila was a good choice for ED, and I'm glad we got someone with a quant background
[11:35] <Pine> That is making a difference IMO
[11:35] <mindspillage> Finnegan: one of them got a huge task list dumped on her, and the other one got a shiny thing to look at...
[11:35] <jorm> wow.  that's kind of a leading question
[11:36] <Qcoder00> MissGayle:  Thanks for ranswerign my question :)
[11:36] <MissGayle> I’m a big believer in developing people and supporting them in gaining the skills to become increasingly effective at their roles. That means mentoring new employees and setting them up to succeed. For people who are first-time managers or even just transitioning from outside, setting them up with opportunities to practice good leadership skills is key.
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[11:36] <MissGayle> Thanks, Pine! It is.
[11:36] <Qcoder00> Clarification : Does the ED hold any responsibilites for the organisation?
[11:36] <Finnegan> mindspillage: Yeah, I mean clearly it's not like Lila isn't busying herself with other stuff. I'm just speaking from the isolated perspective of someone community-side but not foundation-side, where it feels like my side isn't getting so much time and I wish it were.
[11:36] <Krenair> eagle_, are you implying that WMF staff are not the quality you expect?
[11:36] <MissGayle> I think we’re an organization generally interested in getting better. People want to learn here. They’re curious and like knowing how things work. I’ve found people great to work with and open to feedback.
[11:37] * tommorris reckons we need to fire them all, then kill them and bury their bodies in cement—that should benefit with staff morale and retention.
[11:37] <MissGayle> I think it’s a great question for anyone to ask themselves. I ask myself all the time how I can be better at my role.
[11:37] <MC8> is there a page I can look at that tells me what the ED actually does?
[11:37] <Qcoder00> (I don't mean in terms of strategic direction, I mean in terms of 'they bury the corpse' type of the responsibilities.)
[11:37] <Finnegan> o_O
[11:37] <brion> …
[11:37] <Finnegan> corpses have made a rather sudden appearance here
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[11:38] <Guerillero> tommorris: remember that British humor doesn't carry well over text
[11:38] <MissGayle> Do we get to talk about zombies now? :)
[11:38] <Guerillero> yes!
[11:38] <mindspillage> Finnegan: understandable! I'm sympathetic to her--it's hard to figure out when/where to speak, and she's not coming from a journalist background like Sue was; I think we're all spoiled by Sue's long and quickly-written messages.
[11:38] * tommorris should have put </satire> tags on.
[11:38] <MissGayle> She definitely has a different written communication style. :)
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[11:38] <matanya> hello all
[11:38] <eagle_> Does WMF have a compensation structure that ties individual pay to annual performance reviews, etc?
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[11:38] <MissGayle> hi matanya!
[11:38] <Krenair> eagle_, did you see my question to you?
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[11:39] <Pine> eagle_: we discussed that on the Annual Plan review with the FDC so you can look at that talk page if you want some detail
[11:39] <Qcoder00> MC8: Good question
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[11:39] <anonymous90210> Pine: link, please?
[11:39] <anonymous90210> if you would. :)
[11:39] <Qcoder00> BTW Is there someone here that has the time to PM me on something?
[11:39] <Pine> Sure, just a moment
[11:39] <MissGayle> We do. We do annual increases - part of is a cost of living adjustment, and then a 1-5% merit increase based on annual review. It’s mainly symbolic as a 2-3% increase isn’t  much, but the base salaries are commensurate with our peers in the industry and geographically.
[11:40] <eagle_> Would the WMF be more effective if a greater portion were tied to performance?
[11:40] <Qcoder00> In other non-profit or in commerical sector?
[11:40] <MissGayle> We’re a mission driven organization.
[11:40] <matanya> MissGayle: the annual plan talks about new hires, but doesn't details the diversity much, rather than, "we will do it". can you please elaborate ?
[11:40] <MC8> who does the reviews?
[11:40] <jorm> probably not.  money isn't the motivator.
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[11:40] <Krenair> eagle_, are you going to even acknowledge that I asked you a question?
[11:40] <MissGayle> hold on a sec…too many questions. Still tackling eagle's
[11:41] <Krenair> <eagle_> In your opinion, what is the best way to improve the quality of the WMF staff?
[11:41] <Krenair> <Krenair> eagle_, are you implying that WMF staff are not the quality you expect?
[11:41] <Pine> anonymous90210: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/Wikimedia_Foundation/Proposal_form
[11:41] <Krenair> that's where we are so far
[11:41] <anonymous90210> thank you Pine
[11:41] <Qcoder00> MissGayle: Apologies :- Mine was sort of a clarifcation request on something you said about pay being compartive with peers...
[11:41] <MissGayle> Money isn’t the main motivator here, and that’s been born out by the reasons people come here. So no, I don’t think it’s about pay. I think it’s about impact.
[11:42] <Ironholds> yup.
[11:42] <jorm> i'd actually have a concern if money became a thing.
[11:42] <MissGayle> We use Radford’s database for tech and non-profits to draw comparables against.
[11:42] <matanya> I agree about this. the mission is the motivator
[11:42] <Ironholds> you want to motivate me, make sure I've got work that doesn't bore me. And that's it.
[11:42] <jorm> because it would attract people for whom that's a primary motivator.
[11:42] <Ironholds> I mean, it would be NICE to be paid more...because who says no to money?
[11:42] <anonymous90210> software quality should also be a motivator
[11:42] <anonymous90210> imo
[11:42] <Qcoder00> "Who cares if the elphant gets peanuts? That trunk can pull down a house!" XD
[11:42] <Ironholds> but it would also be nice to get a free gulfstream.
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[11:42] <MissGayle> people want impact, they want to be challenged, they want to know they’re doing good work and that it’s tied to something that is really meaningful to them
[11:42] <Ironholds> or, you know, five houses.
[11:42] <MissGayle> and that they get interesting experience. I’ve never been bored here. :) And that’s a huge thing for me.
[11:43] <patrickearley> MC8, have you looked at Lila’s Foundationwiki page - http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/User:LilaTretikov
[11:43] <anonymous90210> its nice to work in an interesting office environment
[11:43] <Qcoder00> Iornholds: A Wiki liner that sails around the world indoctrinating people to ... Oh wait that's some other group... XD
[11:43] <Ironholds> ;p
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[11:43] <MissGayle> New hires, diversity - I’m actually bringing on a new Recruiting Manager starting next Monday and one of the mandates is to diversify our sourcing and our candidate pool, and that’s a project. It means more outreach to organizations, for instance, where we can find more women engineers, and also to pay attention to our international references.
[11:44] * bearND|food ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[11:44] <eagle_> Has the WMF thought about whether comprehensive immigration reform would enhance its ability to get more/better prospective hires from around the world?
[11:44] <MissGayle> Yes.
[11:44] <Pine> MissGayle: can you give us a sense of Lila's priority for the next 6 months?
[11:44] <Krenair> MissGayle, please make eagle_ respond to my questions before taking new ones
[11:44] <Pine> *priorities
[11:44] <Ironholds> eagle_, hi James ;p
[11:44] <MissGayle> Immigration. Bah. We have a fantastic immigration firm that we work for but US laws around immigration are a royal pain in the arse.
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[11:45] <Ironholds> the firm are really great. First-hand experience on that front.
[11:45] <MissGayle> The only one I can make accountable in this chat for answering questions is myself. :)
[11:45] <MC8> patrickearley: it's still only half a sentence
[11:45] <Qcoder00> Question: Does the immigration issues affect WMF ability in non english languages?
[11:45] * tommorris thinks the US Congress are unlikely to change path on immigration reform following a request from the WMF.
[11:45] <matanya> thank you MissGayle. that is a good answer.
[11:45] <matanya> now i can go and celebrate my birthday :)
[11:45] <Pine> happy birthday matanya
[11:46] <MissGayle> The upside is that that there are a bunch of multilingual folks in the US and we have folks working in other countries not on-site. Do we have a gap in our understanding of non-English wikipedias? Yes. And that’s something we’re aware of and will be a consideration in strategic planning.
[11:46] * qchris_away is now known as qchris
[11:46] <Ironholds> MissGayle, just did a count
[11:46] <matanya> thanks Pine
[11:46] <Ironholds> we have 44 distinct languages noted
[11:46] <Qcoder00> MissGayle : Thank you
[11:46] <Ironholds> admittedly one of them is Latin ;p
[11:46] <Qcoder00> (BTW Is this solely about Transiton or is it general HR issues as well?)
[11:46] <MissGayle> Lila’s priorities consist of listening and learning, operational streamlining, and a project and process for developing strategy over the next year.
[11:46] <patrickearley> MC8, I think the “setting its strategy, and managing day-to-day operations” are the key points, but, yes, it could be more detailed.
[11:47] <eagle_> Is being multilingual a job criteria for most WMF positions or even a "plus" if not a requirement?
[11:47] * subbu is now known as subbu|lunch
[11:47] <MissGayle> It’s a definite “plus”, though not a requirement.
[11:47] <Pine> Qcoder00: I think this is the "let's ask Gayle everything we can imagine" office hour
[11:47] <Pine> with a focus on the ED though
[11:47] <Ironholds> Just speaking from my own experience it has definitely been a deciding factor sometimes
[11:47] <Ironholds> e.g. with the community liaisons, multiple languages was a Really Big Deal.
[11:48] <marktraceur> Yes I have a question about purple people eaters. :)
[11:48] <Ironholds> That's how we got Elitre (although we would've hired Elitre anyway because have you met her?)
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[11:48] <MissGayle> And in some jobs more than others. For instance, I’m more interested in coding languages for some of our developers…and someone who can read a financial spreadsheet better than I can for our finance dept. But multilingual for product or the liaisons is huge
[11:48] <Qcoder00> MissGayle:  Do you feel it would be for the ED (and others) to encourage great mutli-lingualism?
[11:48] <Qcoder00> *greater
[11:48] <MissGayle> I think encouraging multi-lingualism is huge!
[11:49] <MissGayle> And we do - like we’ll help people take language classes. There was on-site language classes in Japanese and Latin for awhile that staff were volunteering to teach.
[11:49] <MissGayle> I’m muddling along with Duolingo myself…
[11:49] <Pine> Latin? XD
[11:49] <Pine> Oh dear
[11:49] <MissGayle> I’d love more language classes. :)
[11:49] <MissGayle> Klingon!
[11:49] <tommorris> Pine: hey, http://la.wikipedia.org is a thing.
[11:49] <Pine> hah
[11:49] <Qcoder00> Pine: You'd be suprised , Latin is very relevant when dealing with some academic sources ;)
[11:50] <Ironholds> we actually had a Latin class for a while at the office
[11:50] <tommorris> (Incidentally, la.wikipedia.org has quite a pretty main page)
[11:50] <Pine> tommorris: I know, but it's not exactly a modern language, but I can see how it would be useful for people editing on historic subjects
[11:50] <Qcoder00> Or la.wikisource.org
[11:50] <Ironholds> oh, Gayle said that ;p
[11:50] <Ironholds> Pine, it's actually shockingly useful. I studied it for 7 years and it's good for backwards-engineering romance languages
[11:50] <MissGayle> I liked our language classes. And then we showed Miyazaki films with subtitles for the Japanese classes...
[11:50] <Ironholds> I can sort of vaguely read spanish and italian sometimes! Yay, useful schooling ;p
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[11:51] <MissGayle> A lot of the staff are fundamentally interested in learning. We definitely encourage that. I’d say that intellectual curiousity is one of the hallmarks that we hire for.
[11:51] <Pine> podemos tener las horas de oficina en español?
[11:51] <MissGayle> It’s definitely something we looked for in all our ED candidates, because I think it’s key to getting Wikipedians.
[11:51] <MissGayle> Si…if someone gets me a trnaslator. :)
[11:51] <Qcoder00> PIne: Was that a request to hold an office hours in Spanish?
[11:52] <Pine> Qcoder00: I asked if it was a possibility
[11:52] <Pine> Although in Lila's case, Russian is more likely
[11:52] <Ironholds> MissGayle, we have 19 spanissh speakers, we can do it ;p
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[11:52] <Ironholds> and 11 Russian speakers
[11:52] <Ironholds> wait, 10, I miscounted.
[11:52] <Qcoder00> Ironholds: 2 more and you can form a Soviet ;)
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[11:53] <Ironholds> in Soviet Wikimedia Foundation, performance increases are rewarded with you!
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[11:53] <MissGayle> Let’s…not go there. :)
[11:53] <Pine> MissGayle: let me ask about the transition from another angle. How is the staff taking to it?
[11:54] <marktraceur> Ironholds: Redistribution of wealth, comrade
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[11:54] <MissGayle> Pretty well. I think people are still curoius about her and getting to know her. The staff who have met with her report that they feel like she’s asking really good questions and contributing in substantive ways to their conversations.
[11:54] <Pine> Ironholds: instead of performance raises people will be given gold-framed photos of Jimbo for good work
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[11:55] <Ironholds> Pine, can I sell the frame?
[11:55] <MissGayle> We’re not quite the warm and fuzzy crew, but very much of the watch and listen and learn.
[11:55] <Ironholds> also, a +1 to everything MissGayle said
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[11:55] <Pine> That's good to hear :)
[11:55] <Ironholds> I think Lila is great, and asking a lot of sensible questions I've been wanting people to ask for a while (although she's not yet asked 'why does this guy work here?' which is an odd blind spot)
[11:55] <Pine> hah
[11:56] <patrickearley> Folks, this is the five-minute warning - wrapping up soon.
[11:56] <Pine> Well, Ironholds, from what I can tell, you're pretty good at Analytics
[11:56] <marktraceur> Pine: Bitcoin-plated actually
[11:56] <Ironholds> She's approachable, honest, sensible and her impromptu answers are better than my well-thought-through ones.
[11:56] <eagle_> Do you feel that the long transition between the announcement of Sue departure and the hire of a new ED hurt morale or momentum?
[11:56] <marktraceur> -framed*
[11:56] <MissGayle> I’m not handing out bitcoin frames of Jimmy as rewards for people.
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[11:56] <Ironholds> Pine, last month I had to write an AWK script that threw the results into R that threw them into Python that threw them back into R. My process is not pretty ;p
[11:56] <Ironholds> but it does produce pretty graphs I guess. Anyway.
[11:56] <brion> eagle_: i thought it was a relatively quick transition, no morale problem from me at least :)
[11:57] <MissGayle> I think it was mildly taxing on the organization. I know a few people, esepcially if they werent’ involved in the search, were wondering who and what we’d get. I’d say there was a general exhale of relief when we found Lila.
[11:57] <Ironholds> I found it a bit frustrating because it was sort of...holding-pattern-y for a couple of months at the end. But it's not like there aren't always interesting things to do :).
[11:57] <MissGayle> Or maybe that was me. :)
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[11:57] <Ironholds> and the wait was worth it.
[11:57] <MissGayle> So I’d say - yes, it had an impact, but I wouldn’t characterize it as sizeable.
[11:58] * Qcoder00 has visions of hooded members consulting large tomes...
[11:58] <Ironholds> We all appear to still be here.
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[11:58] <Ironholds> Qcoder00, actually they don't like hoods
[11:58] <Ironholds> interferes with mindspillage's hair
[11:58] <MissGayle> rituals were afoot…but I promise nothing resembling human was sacrificed...
[11:58] <Ironholds> I mean, uh, I have no idea what you're talking about *makes secret signs at a bulky, suited gentleman in the corner while pointing at Qcoder00 *
[11:59] <MissGayle> It’s only the Transition Team that was asked to ante up bits of our souls...
[11:59] <Qcoder00> I widthdraw the comment
[11:59] <mindspillage> "No sentient beings were harmed in the making of this organizational transition."
[11:59] <Pine> FWIW this is the most entertaining HR meeting I've ever attended
[11:59] <marktraceur> Qcoder00: They're in the Dog Park usually
[11:59] <MissGayle> I try. :)
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[11:59] <eagle_> We appreciate you holding this session.
[12:00] <MissGayle> I’m happy to. I really enjoy these!
[12:00] <MissGayle> They’re a nice part of my day and I like knowing other people want to think about these things.
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[12:00] <Pine> Thank you. We're at 12:00 but when you have a moment can I ask you to respond to Isarra's question on Wikimedia-l?
[12:00] <patrickearley> Thanks everyone for coming, and for some great q’s.
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[12:00] <Qcoder00> MissGayle: Can I ask a slightly controversial question that's HR releated?
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[12:01] <MissGayle> We’re out of time so I can’t promise an in-depth answer. :)
[12:01] <MissGayle> But shoot and I’ll do my best quick answer on my way out the door to another meeting.
[12:01] <Qcoder00> MissGayle: OK it may be something for another office hours
[12:01] <MissGayle> Pine - which question of Isarra's?
[12:02] <Qcoder00> What mesaures has the WMF in place to ensure it's staff respect the values inherent in safeguarding younger and vulnerable contributors?
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[12:02] <Pine> MissGayle: this thread http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-July/073134.html
[12:02] <Pine> Whenever you have a few minutes, doesn't need to be done today
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[12:03] <Qcoder00> MissGayle: My question is partly motivated by news events here in the UK
[12:03] <Qcoder00> As said it may be something that needs another office hours to discxuss in depth
[12:05] <MissGayle> The quick answer is that we do what we can. We are aware keenly of the risks and variables and do a lot behind the scenes, and address specific situations as they come up. It’s a behemoth of a problem, as you likely know.  Also - I’m still parsing the question - “ensure it’s staff respect teh values inherent” - I’d say the staff values transparency and privacy and safe space, and how those all play out in interaction wiht one anoth
[12:05] <MissGayle> is something we ask ourselves.
[12:05] <MissGayle> Alright - take care! Be well!
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[12:05] <Pine> Bye and thank you
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[12:05] <MissGayle> Pine - so sorry! I msised that email entirely somehow - I’m inundated…but what you said is dead on!
[12:05] <Qcoder00> MissGayle: Thank you, although perhaps the question deserved a fuller disscussion at a later date.
[12:06] <Qcoder00> ?
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[12:06] <MissGayle> Well, also perhaps asked earlier. ;) Off now!
[12:06] <Pine> Qcoder00: you can request an office hour with Philippe
[12:06] <Qcoder00> MissGayle: Thanks
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[12:06] <matanya> thank you MissGayle
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[12:06] <Qcoder00> Pine: Philippe?
[12:06] <patrickearley> We’re going to have to let MissGayle go now.
[12:06] * MissGayle is now known as zz_MissGayle
[12:07] <Pine> Qcoder00: Philippe manages many tasks related to community safety
[12:07] <Pine> I'll get you his profile in a sec
[12:07] * patrickearley changes topic to 'Please note: Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE). | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours'
[12:08] <Pine> Qcoder00: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Philippe_%28WMF%29
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[12:08] <Qcoder00> Thanks
[12:09] <Pine> You're welcome
[12:09] <Pine> patrickearley: thanks for facilitating and please do make an effort to get a 2 week notice policy enacted
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[12:10] <patrickearley> Duly noted, Pine.  I will push for it.  Thanks for coming, and for your q’s.
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