Realitysquared/Chat logs

Back to original article

This is a good chunk of the DeviantART FeaturedChat from January 20, 2007, where tartlets asked super-moderator, realitysquared, questions concerning DA policy. It is missing the first 20 minutes and the last 15, but it's still got some epic points, were realitysquared shows his knowledge of copyright law, and were realitysquared contradicts himself concerning comments/journals about Encyclopedia Dramatica and 4chan.

It should be noted that shortly after this chat (and this journal), Lilandra-Surge was permabanned from DevianTART, with no real reason given.

FeaturedChat with Realitysquared

*** You have joined #FeaturedChat *

<FoxMaq>Kenji-Himonatashi: people are unpredictable :)

<EchoedLight>i have a question about what constitutes abuse and harrassment when there is a break and
i figure out how totype without getting disconnected!

<catartica>too many questions!:)

<Venasque>mine next!!....kidding

<LauraJeanZ> Thank you for holding this open chat, I appreciate it. I will not be able to stay, 
but I did want to mention a complaint here in the open. I have sent a complaint previously to the 
help desk, in which I recieved a note about dA policy regarding bigotry and anti semetic "derogatory 
remarks about philosphies and religion." The note regarding policy did not do me much good as it 
would of been better for the user I was complaining about, so that did not make much sense to me. The 
said described user stated in a journal that has since been deleted that the goal of that page was to 
"point and laugh" at those who leave comments. That user has also desribed "pissing on a prophet" Of 
course I am a lover of artistic freedom and freedom of speech; however the said described user seems 
to be using that freedom to promote anti-semitism and hate speech. So my question is where does the 
dA admin draw the line concerning these issues? Is there a policy or procedure?

<catboyry>realitysquared: The FAQ warns against reporting vague suspicions; however, sometimes I've 
come upon galleries full of possible rips and simply cannot find originals to prove a rip. Are there 
steps that could be done in that situation?

<chix0r>woah LauraJeanZ, you may want to hold on a few mins, we've got some other questions to be 
answered first

<LauraJeanZ>ok I deeply apologize for the long post.

<realitysquared>Venasque: Highly popular animated childrens shows expect and even sometimes encourage 
fan art, and on the whole they ignore anything which doesn't involve the sale of their properties. By 
contrast private artists often get quite angered at people tracing. The decision for leniency for 
TV/Movies is also contingent on the person not trying to pretend it's a freehand drawing.

<Venasque>realitysquared: so, does this apply to other mediums that promote fan art, too?

* leaf-lover is away: phoneage + headache

* bellchild is back

<realitysquared>ConnorCailo-Alliance: We want people to rely upon valid stock items and not feel that 
they may simply use whatever they feel like in their works without concern for the rights of the 
proper owner. The screenshot prohibition is highly unlikely to change.

<realitysquared>FoxMaq: We do have certain measures in place to prevent people from forcing their way 
into an account- the weakest link is the user and their habits.

<Venasque>realitysquared: no... actually, forget that follow up question, I can see where it should 
and should not apply. It's just a little interesting to see such rigid restrictions in some areas 
where a person might be able to claim that they were just using encouraged fan art, to no avail when 
something is removed... I appreciate your reply, Daniel. Thanks.

<karma4ya>i just wanted to come and say i do understand that people break copyright and such but i 
feel if you are going to delete one persons work for using images such as psp tubes than you should 
delete everyone images that uses such media within there work

<Kenji-Himonatashi>I get angry. =(

<ConnorCailo-Alliance>realitysquared: Ok :). Thanks for the reply.

<realitysquared>Skyrail: Obtaining a license for use of someones work needs to be worked out while 
talking with the proper owner. I strongly advise getting it all in writing and signed as well.

<Kenji-Himonatashi>Ok her is what I wanted to ask. Regarding the issue on underaged models. Dose it 
apply to drawings? For example a cartoon/anime.

<realitysquared>leaf-lover Yes I think such a password sensor would be a good idea and I think I 
would have no trouble supporting such a measure.

<karma4ya>and if one has permission from the said artist it is still wrong to use as it isnt YOUR 
ORIGINAL work right? cuz when you submit a deviation its supose to be your own work at least this is 
wut i was told when i got a responce from the help desk over them deleting some of my work and if 
thats the case people should also not be allowed to use stock images as its not sumthin they have 
made 100% right? i just feel that everyone should be treated the same

<realitysquared>EchoedLight: We currently define harassment as repeated abuse or unwanted contact- 
it's harder to explain because we need to actually review what is going on. The Block system should 
suffice for 75% or more of these situations.

<Skyrail>realitysquared: I see, to ensure that if any problems arise proof can be provided to show 
that you have been given the rights to show the art. Thanks :) it's all an interesting matter really. 
Regarding leaf-lover's question I also support that I believe measures such as that should be 
implemented, althuogh I didn't realise the extent of which people went to obtain passwords for sites 
like these until I read your article.

<realitysquared>LauraJeanZ: We have a policy of trying to be as lenient as possible when it comes to 
journals. We really want to stay out of moderating peoples person opinions and such written in what 
is essentially a private place unless it is of the most extreme nature.

<realitysquared>catboyry: Essentially reports of "I think this might be stolen" are worthless to us 
unless we recognise the image on sight (rare but possible). If you have any information at all you 
should include it rather than just saying "I saw this somewhere at sometime during my life"

<LauraJeanZ>ok I understand. it is more than journals but I do not want to take up to much space. 
thank you for the reply and time.

<realitysquared>venasque: I'd need more details about what you mean by that

<Kenji-Himonatashi>That last one to catboyry. Dose it apply to offline artists work being stolen?

<catboyry>Kenji-Himonatashi: Yes, that's what I was referring to.

<Kenji-Himonatashi>=P

<Danium>realitysquared: I have seen alot of well know images that are being ripped, but if you dont 
know the orginal source, but you realitysquared in this case recognise the image, will it still be 
removed?

<realitysquared>karma4ya: In my experience most 'PSP tubes' and 'Renders' are nothing more than 
copyright protected materials which are being offered by people with no legal right to do so. Also 
please see :faq302:

<chix0r>FAQ #302: Why did I receive some sort of administrative action when someone else did not?

<realitysquared>Kenji-Himonatashi: Yes, the policies on underage models do apply- please see :faq249:

<Kenji-Himonatashi>Alright I wanted to be sure so when I do report I'm not wrong. =P

<realitysquared>laurajeanz; We are aware of the account which you are refering to and as of yet it 
has done nothing that hasn't been allowed numerous time sin the past.

<realitysquared>catboyry: In cases of offline artwork being stolen, I have scoured the real world 
looking for materials to prove or disprove such accusations. You just need to give me the starting 
place with the author or publications name.

<realitysquared>Danium: Some images are unmistakable (like celebrities)- don't sweat the source if 
this is the case

<catartica>i have a question about copyright in the category traditional art- collage. i often find 
collages made using copyrighted photos taken from magazines, for example, and i see that it's a 
tolerated thing. i sent a helpdesk ticket for an explaination and in their answer they stated that 
it's like including graffiti and street art in photos, it's permitted as long as a piece of wall is 
visible, so i can upload a collage with copyrighted material as long as you can notice from the 
background of the scan that it's a collage. can you explain me the principle of this rule? i don't 
get it. if the use of copyrighted photos is legally and ethically wrong, what's the difference 
between scanning a magazine page to use it for a photomanipulation and cutting it to use it for a 
collage?

<catboyry>That makes sense. =)

<Kiokiou>Just wondering here but, are we allowed to put on artwork or anything else up that isn't 
ours?

<Kiokiou>put artwork*

<realitysquared>catartica: Collages are tricky, but so far all collages reported for use of 
copyrighted materials have been removed. We encourage people to use only valid stock materials.

<blushark>realitysquared: what is being done about ever increasing number of 
photomanipulations/darkroom manipulations that are being uploaded in photography galleries? or 
firstly - is this even percieved as a problem among admins? and if so, are there any battle plans, 
taking into consideration the overwhelming number of people who are trying to sell their manipd 
images as ordinary photographs?
the problem is that even some extremely popular artists are doing this, and of course denying 
everything, so new artists just presume it's okay too. reporting a policy violation against unknown 
artist works well to move the shot into apropriate gallery, but against popular ones does nothing.
maybe writing an extensive news post about this problem would at least educate those users who aren't 
doing it on purpose? maybe cause more policy violation reports?

<realitysquared>Kiokiou: No- your submissions must be entirely your own.

<catartica>realitysquared: then, why did they give me that answer at the help desk?

<Kiokiou>Ok thank you

<realitysquared>blushark: That's more of a Gallery Director issue. The GDs are all volunteers and 
they do what they can when they have the time available. Those are some big sections to have to sort 
by hand.

<miyusuke>what if they are poses taken from magazine paper ads but we use our own characters?

<karma4ya>realitysquared: thank you for repeating what the help desk said already i guess that the 
safest deviation is one made 100% by your self :) You guys are bizy I do understand that and i just 
think that its not really clear as to wut is allowed media to use an not allowed :) so i jus from now 
on will use only images that i have takin with my cam or images i have made from scratch and will not 
b reporting other who break the rules as that would be kinda childish on my part i do THANK You guys 
for all your hard work and a place to share the work i do create :)

<miyusuke>+or

<Lilandra-Surge>realiftysquared: I understand that if a deviant posts hateful things that call out a 
deviant in their journal, it is regarded as harassment. However, if they instead post a link to a 
page that calls out the deviant in the way they would like to, does this constitute harassment? I ask 
partially because of the recent plague of encyclopedia dramatica articles about deviants.

<EchoedLight>i am so sorry i keep bouncing like this- i'm having connection issues. still trying to 
figure out what harrassment and abuse constitutes on here.

<realitysquared>catartica: I'm afraid I deal with hundreds of HD cases every single day so I don't 
remember yours in particular.

<Kenji-Himonatashi>EchoedLight: Kinda like how my screensaver keeps coming on. >.>

<Danium>Lilandra-Surge: Oh I have seen that, its quite populair around dAmn that encycplodia drama

<chix0r>Danium: it's not a dA site, however

<EchoedLight>can you just call people fuckwads, insipid faggots, and physically threaten them and 
it's not a violation? cause there is a dA'er doing that. i reported them and was told they are 
allowed to do that and then hide the comments since they own them and apparently that's ok? so it's 
okay if you say that kind of stuff as long as you then hide it?

<Danium>The link I got had an 'image' of an dA journal

<realitysquared>Lilandra-Surge: The Encyclopedia-Dramatica is mainly used as a satire of the absurd. 
I would advise not taking the site seriously at all. As far as journals are concerned we do allow 
people to express negative opinions, we just ask that you be tactful about it and not present 
opinions as facts

<karma4ya>and i have to agree with catartica because alot of psp tubes are just that scanned images 
people have made into tubes and if that wrong than collages should be wrong to :)

<Danium>But that journal could have been removed.

<miyusuke>.

<chix0r>ok let's wait for realitysquared's response to this

<Kenji-Himonatashi>EchoedLight: That is why people arent able to edit posts.

<catartica>realitysquared: of course, but i repeated the answer they (or you) gave me, about 
copyrighted photos in collage being like graffiti in photos... i'm just asking if that's a rule, 
because if it is, then anyone can even print our work, cut it and use it in a collage, as long as the 
background shows that it's a collage... it seems like they gave me a wrong information at the help 
desk, then.

<Kenji-Himonatashi>But thanks to custumizing userpages they can.

<Kenji-Himonatashi>D:

<chix0r> we will be taking a break in 10 minutes time

<miyusuke>connection timed out

<realitysquared>EchoedLight: isolated insults are not a big concern. Threats of violence will get 
people banned immediately since that is intolerable.

<EchoedLight>good, then i'll report it again and we'll see what happens

<EchoedLight>i'm doubting anything but i'll give it a try

<realitysquared>karma4ya: As I said, every collage reported for copyright issues has so far been 
removed.

<Kenji-Himonatashi>EchoedLight: Maybe they got a warning.

<blushark>realitysquared: what worries me the most is the apparent favoritism towards "popular" 
members, especially those with galleries filled with shots in wrong categories, who systematically 
put everything and anything in photography regardless of amount of selective manipulation or even 
texturing applied.
as for overworked gallery directors, is there a way to help them by applying myself somewhere and 
give some kind of help? i've over 10 years experience in photography and manipulations, so i have an 
eye for that kind of stuff...

<Kenji-Himonatashi>:shrug:

<Kiokiou>hmm..

<realitysquared>Danium: As I stated previously we try to steer clear of moderating journals unless 
absolutely necessary

<Danium>realitysquared: I know, it wasnt a question :lol:

<realitysquared>catartica: Most likely I confused your question as concerning photos of graffitti 
instead of it concerning collage art.

<catartica>realitysquared: thank you. we're human and we make mistakes:)

<realitysquared>blushark: You can report those when you find them- just report them as 'broke section 
rules' and they will go to a s[pecial area for the GDs to review in due time.

<blushark>thanks!

<Monsoni>>> Holy crud this room is full

<catartica>blushark: i understand your concern about digital photomanipulations. but where do you 
think that darkroom manipulations should be? there's no category such as traditional art- 
photomanipulation... they can only be in the photography category

<Kenji-Himonatashi>catartica: Hey he is too.

<karma4ya>realitysquared: thank u and u have a great day ! i know ya all cant catch every issue but 
Thank You for the Hard work u guys do since i know most is volunteer situation i have to say you guys 
do a great job. HAVE a GOOD DAY!

<chix0r>catartica: can you take that up elsewhere please, this channel is for questions to be 
answered by realitysquared, thanks

<martin6661>blushark that means you were 14 at the time you started

<catartica>oh, so everyone but me can comment other people's questions... perfect:D

<chix0r>ok we're going to take this opportunity to break

<Kenji-Himonatashi>I was wondering. At one point there was an option that allowed a deviation when 
edited to be updated and let all your watchers know it was edited. why was it removed?

** privilege class Watching has been updated by chix0r with: -msg

<chix0r>Kenji-Himonatashi: ask again after the break

<realitysquared>catartica: It's not that we just do not want any prolonged side conversations.

<chix0r> we will continue in 15 minutes time, thank you!

<chix0r>catartica: yes, I was just about to break, which is why I asked you to perhaps continue 
elsewhere

<realitysquared>Kenji-Himonatashi: That's possible an oversight. I'd advise filing a Bug report at 
the helpdesk.

<realitysquared>I'll continue to remain in this channel for quite sometime after the break, so stick 
around if you have any questions, suggestions or concerns.

* chix0rteases everyone with chocolate

* kamizuteases chix0r with himself :eyes:

<kamizu>;P

* sapphiretigerthinks about getting bugers >.>

<chix0r>boogers :bucktooth:

<kamizu>to everyone: get snacks or go to the toilets or both :bucktooth:

<kamizu>dont want to be sitting here regretting that you didnt :bucktooth:

<chix0r>and bring me things.

<chix0r>we're just about to start things again

* rapidographmakes waffles for those in the queue

** privilege class Watching has been updated by chix0r with: +msg

<chix0r>welcome back realitysquared

<JesusIV>:ninja:

* KatiBeargrabs all the waffles

<Shah-G>so

<Shah-G>whats going on here.... did i miss any important questions?

<Kenji-Himonatashi>All mine. =P

<Kenji-Himonatashi>and some good ones.

<quicksliver>EchoedLight: :thumb24628777:hakefist:

<quicksliver>doh...

<realitysquared>Okay, so lets get back on track with any new questions or concerns.

<phathryyn>could the policy in nudity be a little more tolerant?

<Kenji-Himonatashi>:shakefist:

<Kenji-Himonatashi>xD

* amusantmayurawonders how you ask questions in these chats

<Kenji-Himonatashi>:pointndlaugh:

<realitysquared>phathryyn: Can you explain a little better what you mean?

<Kenji-Himonatashi>O.o

<Kenji-Himonatashi>:pointandlaugh:

<chix0r>Kenji-Himonatashi: we're trying to chat here, steady with the emotes

<Kenji-Himonatashi>sorry. I'll stop.

<rapidograph>realitysquared: in the case of a deviation that may have been deleted in error, is there 
an appeals process to CEA?

<realitysquared>Yes there is. We are able to restore a deviation if there has been an error. They are 
rare but they do occur.

<realitysquared>You should contact the helpdesk with a Policy Inquiry.

<Lilandra-Surge>realitysquard: Is it acceptable to post comments such as "Congratulations for getting 
on ED", "Congratulations on getting posted to 4chan", etc, with or without links, on deviants 
userpages?

<realitysquared>Someone will lookup the information and verify.

<rapidograph>thanks, it was a hypothetical question that comes up a lot in #help and other channels I 
monitor

<phathryyn>realitysquared: a friend of mine submit a composition, it was a good compositio with 
absoluto no real nudity on, but the subjet was wearing a strap on (indeed an erected one), the pose 
didn't show no sexual meaing whatsoever. and the lightning and overall composition was very much 
artistic. and it got policy violation.

<phathryyn>sorry bout the typos

<realitysquared>Lilandra-Surge: Those sites are known to organise harassment campaigns. If you start 
making comments like that right in the middle of one then it is entirely possible that you will be 
banned indefinitely as a participent.

<Lilandra-Surge>realitysquared: What if there is no campaign going on, but a poster of that has a 
username that seems to have *chan related connotations?

<Kenji-Himonatashi>Guilty by asociation?

<realitysquared>phathryyn: Our policies currently prohibit those kinds of props. There are currently 
no plans to change this.

<phathryyn>realitysquared: thanks for the answer

<realitysquared>Lilandra-Surge: Honestly my opinion is that if you are making posts like that then 
you are most likely trying to start a situation. Don't do it unless you are prepared to pay the 
consequences.

<Lilandra-Surge>realitysquared: Thanks for clearing that up, but it is still alright to bring up 
these things in one's journal?

<realitysquared>Lilandra-Surge: I wouldn't advise it.

<jedinudist>greetings, is the featured chat still running?

* amusantmayuranods

<chix0r>jedinudist: yes

<Skyrail>realitysquared: as the deviantART userbase continues to grow and more and more members 
continue to join, are you going to implement measures to help increase security, like leaf-lover 
stated? your recent article has brought to light some very important factors that have arisen as this 
community continues to gorw.

<realitysquared>Skyrail: As my article pointed out the only real weakness in our system is the user. 
It's terribly hard to develop IT solutions for that.

<Skyrail>realitysquared: yes I see your point, if the user doesn't attempt to implement security 
measures themselves it can be near impossible for anything else to stop it. Although do you think you'll be trying to encourage users more, i.e. leaf-lovers suggestion, to try and be more aware about 
these issues, maybe not just in dA aswell but to be careful where ever.

<Skyrail>Many people use the same password everywhere (not everyone but a lot do) and so giving that 
single password away would open up countless possibilities for the person who comes across this 
password

<realitysquared>I've yet to actually see someones account be invaded where the person did not "waltz 
in" due to carelessness and unfortunately News articles, FAQs, and 
"In-Your-Face-Click-That-You-Read-It" measures don't reach the people who need reaching because they 
don't read them. We can't automate and take responsibility for everything.

<Skyrail>I entirely understand that, thanks for your time :)

<realitysquared>I'll continue to make resources available but I can't make people read them if they 
aren't concerned enough to.

<Skyrail>Yes, I myself am trying to provide information after reading your article, but I guess it's 
only useful to those who care, as you jsut said.

<realitysquared>And the people who care are the people who don't need to know most of the time.

<Danium>realitysquared: What about, giving all new deviants a 'non changable' password, a random 
password which contains numbers and letters and such, wouldnt that be better with all 'hacking' and 
stuff?

<Skyrail>Indeed, which is a problem, although nothing can really be done unless you actually go to 
the person in real life and tell them to do it :D

<kamizu>Danium: would be hard to memorise

<jedinudist>and not hard to crack

<Danium>I still memorise my dsl password from 7 years ago :lol:

<realitysquared>Danium: That occured to me as well, however in most cases the account invasion is 
because of browser-memorized password, "I-Never-Log-Out" practices and other cases of carelessness.

<spinegrinder>What about implementing a rule that would force users to change their password after X 
amount of time or else they won't be able to sign into their account? =p

<Skyrail>Hmm, which is a problem, also even if you do log out you have to ensure form history isn't 
saved ;)

<Danium>spinegrinder: That I would forget :lol:

<realitysquared>Having a randomized 50 place alpha-numeric password is useless if your browser enters 
it for you or the invader just sits down and finds you logged in.

<Danium>I have like million passwords and codes to remember :O

<Skyrail>realitysquared: definately true

<Danium>realitysquared: That it would be the users own fault

<realitysquared>spinegrinder: That still wouldn't change the main causes for people getting into the 
accounts.

<spinegrinder>I use md5 signatures of random files I have saved on an encrypted usb stick, so i just 
have to remember the pass phrase for the usb stick :D

<Jigg007>Get retenal and biometric finger scanning! :D

* Daniumis gonna steal spinegrinder's stick and brain :paranoid:

<jedinudist>realitysquared: what options are available to a deviant when another deviant uses their 
image without prior permission and then just "lets them know" after the fact?

<Danium>Jigg007: Are you gonna pay for that? :lol:

<realitysquared>Danium: Exactly- user fault will defeat even the most secure system available.

<Skyrail>spinegrinder: I've just been told about this by electricjonny in a comment, and it seems and 
effective method

<SoftSensuality>I have a "password" file that shows my log-in name and a shortform "reminder" of what 
my password is for each site I'm registered on ...Danium:

<SoftSensuality>oops ... Danium should have been at the front - sorry

<realitysquared>jedinudist: You can file a helpdesk ticket or you may report the submission directly 
using the link on the page under the statistics and information.

<Skyrail>spinegrinder: although if the user is really unlucky and gets that hacked, then that's all 
the passwords gone

<Danium>SoftSensuality: I mostly remember all my passwords but than again I only use dA and last.fm

<wiredgirl>jedinudist: I've had that happen before. I just asked the deviant in a comment to take it 
down and then filed a PV report. Usually they take it down themselves :)

<jedinudist>realitysquared: the policy violation link?

<realitysquared>jedinudist: Yes- that's it.

<spinegrinder>Skyrail: well for that i would have to lose the usb stick or someone would have to 
break into my house and find it :giggle:

<Skyrail>Regarding the fact that dA is going to continue to grow (hopefully) for sometime now and 
with more and more users joining, are you expecting an increase in the number of reports you get 
concerning policy violations or are you hoping to try and reduce the number even though this 
community is growing?

<Danium>But from all the answers realitysquared gave, its basicly the users own responablity if the 
person gets hacked :O

<jedinudist>Thx everyone - have a good one :D

<Skyrail>spinegrinder: :D yeh valid point, I have a password protected USB stick and maybe I should 
try that method seems very useful, although the only big stuff that needs to be protected is my dA 
account (protected well) and my coursework (some rubbish password)

<Kiokiou>Will anyone's account get hacked? Did anyone's account ever get hacked?

<chix0r>ok let's try to keep on track here and allow realitysquared to answer questions

<realitysquared>Skyrail: Unfortunately it's been proven that more new users directly increases the 
number of people who don't know the rules until somebody hits their gallery with them.

<realitysquared>Skyrail: Policy reports have remained steady ever since the system was first 
introduced- no reduction only increases

<Skyrail>realitysquared: do you think that although there is a link at the bottom it should be made 
more clear that there is an Etiquette Policy, Copyright Policy etc. It's a shame to see only 
increases, really is, but you do a great job you and your team at keeping on top :)

<Lilandra-Surge>Kiokiou: I don't think people have been "hacked", but they have been tricked into 
giving out their passwords a whole lot

<rockfaerie666>realitysquared: Is it true that there's a possibility for deviantart to disrupt 
because of the too many users, and not enough servers? And how we could help if there's a chance for 
something like that to occure?

<Kiokiou>Lilandra-Surge: KK, thankies

<realitysquared>Skyrail: The main difficulty is that nobody bother to read it. We'll keep pushing the 
information but it's up to the new user to actually read it in the first place.

<amusantmayura>skyrail: I've read the policies and they still seem to be pretty vague to me as I 
found out when hit with policy violations myself

<amusantmayura>I constantly read them and nowhere does it say I was not allowed to use what I did

<amusantmayura>which is why I was confused, and asked help desk for help on it, and got no reply

<Skyrail>The decisions made by the C&E staff is final unless there are really any problems, so that 
can't be sorted really.

<amusantmayura>skyrail: I know that, which is why I merely asked why it was done, not for it to be undone :)

<Danium>realitysquared: Wouldnt it be handy to have a pop up which appears, when a new member signs 
in which contains some tips, and can only be closed after 2 minuts orsomething, so it can be read.

<realitysquared>rockfaerie666: We've often commented over the last couple of years about how every 
increase in our ability to handle more traffic is very quickly eaten up by more traffic pouring in. 
There is really nothing which can be done at the user level to combat being an incredibly popular 
browsing destination.

<realitysquared>amusantmayura: What exactly did you use?

<dancewiththesky>hi all.. are there any rules for asking questions

<Skyrail>realitysquared: Yeh, i have noticed that across many sites and poses to be a big problem, 
the fact that people think "Yeh I know most of it anyway" and so they don't actually know the true 
extent of these policies and so they either break them or it affects them causing problems, another 
problem that is userbased, alongside security

<realitysquared>Danium: Something like that has been discussed- sort of a 'welcome packet'

<chix0r>dancewiththesky: well we are currently having a policy related chat, so if you've got 
anything relevant to ask, feel free to join in at an appropriate break in chatter

<amusantmayura>realitysquared: I made icons of celebrities (as I have seen other users here make) as 
well as one containing an anime image which I had screencapped myself, and they were all taken down 
for policy violation.

<amusantmayura>realitysquared: my friends even have them and wouldn't take them down when I mentioned 
that I was told it was policy violation

<realitysquared>dancewiththesky: Just ask away if it's policy/copyright/etiquette related and wait 
for your answer in turn.

<dancewiththesky>alright

<Skyrail>realitysquared: I like the sound of this welcome packet, trying to 'push' it as far towards 
the user as possible to try and get them to see

<Skyrail>Although, still some will ignore it and once again a user related problem that can't be 
fixed by anyone other then the users themselves

<Danium>realitysquared: Yah, I know when I first joined dA in 2004, I had no idea where I had to 
submit my stuff, and also I didnt had a clue where to find the faq, even tho it was so obvious to 
find, but if your all new to dA its pretty hard to understand, so a 'welcome package' for new 
deviants would be an awesome thing.

<realitysquared>amusantmayura: Check the terms of service, the Submission agreement, search the news 
system and Search the FAQ for 'copyright'. You cannot possible have missed the information if you 
really looked.

<amusantmayura>realitysquared: I did, and that's why I am confused - I am not blaming help desk or 
anyone, just wondered why it seemed (to me) to still be so vaguely put in the ToS etc.

<amusantmayura>I looked and read, and re-read - only conclusion was just that I was an idiot

* amusantmayurachuckles

<realitysquared>Search the faq for copyright issues and read "What does deviantART consider Art 
Theft:"

<amusantmayura>realitysquared: my main question though is why are there still so many others not 
having theirs taken down?

<Skyrail>amusantmayura: if it was put into full detail and every fine detail explained the writing 
would be immense, it coveres the nesscary information that's needed to cover all bases

<dancewiththesky>:faq303: mentions that deviantART "absolutely prohibit the submission of what may be 
termed 'Hate Art'".. so my first questions is how "hate art" is defined?

* amusantmayuranods to both

<amusantmayura>thank you

<realitysquared>amusantmayura: We remove things in the order in which they come to our attention- the 
ones you still see haven't had their "turn" being deleted yet.

<amusantmayura>realitysquared: should I still be trying to encourage those I know to delete theirs 
before being hit with this themselves?

<amusantmayura>realitysquared: and I will go read what you sent me to, thanks :)

<realitysquared>dancewiththesky: That's something of a complicated question which is a little too 
deep to go into during an open chat like this one.

<Skyrail>realitysquared: although information like that should be added to the FAQ to be honest, what 
dancewiththesky said anyway

<Black-Dragon-Club>realitysquared: What are the rules for depictions of vicolence and/or injuries in 
art on dA?

<realitysquared>You can if you wish, however be cautious because I've seen a lot of people get attack 
because they've tried to 'help' that way.

<rockfaerie666>realitysquared: Yes, I know that. We also asked spyed about that problem, but he just 
said; "don't worry, just be devious", but it still worries me a bit. I know he can handle it, but I 
think income from our subscriptions will not be enough in the near future. So, my suggestion is that 
you guys could maybe delete all accounts that haven't been used for a couple of months (I have seen 
tons of accounts like that), and maybe you'll get some space, or you could create a bank account 
where we could make some donations per month and such.

<amusantmayura>I don't do it on dA - I just ask my friends in person or on messengers to take them 
down to avoid it happening to them

<dancewiththesky>realitysquared: is there any articles and/or faqs touching the subject? 
(unfortunately, I failed to find any)

<amusantmayura>they just refuse so I leave it *shrugs*

<realitysquared>Black-Dragon-Club: Drawn or 'artificial' violence needs to be marked as mature 
Content. Real-life self-mutilation is not allowed whatsoever.