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Talk:Ben Garrison
this would be funny if he ACTUALLY WAS a Nazi, instead of, the reality: a semi-lolcow and libertarian cartoonist. ED deals in documenting drama tho, not spreading libel against a person. obv parts of this could remain like the nicknames and pics and the fictional narrative of him being a Nazi, as long as its labeled as such, but it should be more about /pol/ trolling him, him crying to Online Hate Prevention Institute, how he got the edits image-banned from the 4plebs.org /pol/ archive, and how he contributed to fucking over /pol/ in December/November last year with his "CEO of Troll Inc" moot cartoon and threats against moot. hes also doing a book on "social media and trolls" ("with memes!") and running a "legal fund" which nearly nobody donated to. this is definitely internet relevant, but this writing style is the wrong way to go about it.--
Talk to me|Contribs 12:20, 17 January 2015 (EST)
- True to an extent, except in instances when the "lie" can create or incite more drama. The idea though should be to create parody/satire not outright slander in order to incite that drama, but a lot of people are a bit fuzzy on that part, usually because they aren't very good at writing/creativity or because they're shitting their personal feelings/biases into it.
- There used to be a good article on the subject, but apparently it was culled because someone didn't like the person who made it...
- Oh well, I don't think most people read the help files anyway. --U Mad Bro 13:49, 17 January 2015 (EST)
- FFS, ED is a satire site and protected from libel laws because...free speech.Whatever is funnier, not whatever is most truthful.--Boudica 21:24, 17 January 2015 (EST)
- Well, actually no, it really isn't. You can't just stamp "parody" or "satire" onto something and then do whatever you like, that's not how free speech works. There have been a number of times where ED has actually been legally forced to remove certain content because of that fact. It doesn't happen very often, usually because the person is either clueless and doesn't know how or they simply don't care or don't want to invest the money in the legal wranglings or on the flip side Zaiger will remove certain things because he doesn't want to bother with the legal wranglings. It can work both ways. The system can be abused by kooks and it can also be utilized to stop nut jobs from essentially stalking/harassing other people.
- The line is pretty blurry though and for the most part you can get away with quite a lot on ED that you can't get away with elsewhere, provided you don't accidently stuff yer hand into a hornets nest. Some people on ED over the years have learned that the hard way...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Fortuny
- That's the "brighter side" though... the "darker side" is that sometimes making content for ED can make you a target for people who have ZERO sense of humor and don't comprehend satire or parody even in the slightest. In which case you can expect everything from bomb threats to vandalism and potentially even physical assaults. Just for making an article on ED. In other words it's usually a good idea to maintain some level of anonymity when doing anything on ED. There's much greater danger from nut balls than there is from potential legal wranglings regarding slander or libel, especially when it comes to articles like this and this and this.
- Don't contribute to or make articles like that unless you're willing to expect a certain level of backlash over it, because it will make some people absolutely enraged beyond measure and you saying, "it's only satire" is not going to deter them in the slightest. Whether it is actually satire or not doesn't matter to those sorts of people, some of them will try and make legal trouble for the site and some of them will just haul off and do illegal shit to try and get back at you for it.
- TL;DR - If you want to exercise the bleeding edge of free speech you need to keep in mind that, that edge can cut you. --U Mad Bro 21:58, 17 January 2015 (EST)
Bottom Line for anyone reading- We can call Ben Garrison a Nazi all we want, because it's satire.This is how it works.--Boudica 22:10, 17 January 2015 (EST)
- Depends on where you live actually. If you're in the United States... go for it! If you're in Europe, especially the UK, just surfing on ED could potentially get you put behind bars. That's what happened with Georgia Varley, because her nut ball parents were rich they basically used their money to start targeting trolls (legally and otherwise) and a number of trolls from the UK wound up doing jail time as a result, primarily for postings made on FaceBook.
- --U Mad Bro 22:14, 17 January 2015 (EST)
This is irrelevant and doesn't effect the content of ED in the slightest.--Boudica 22:17, 17 January 2015 (EST)
- Read the Wiki article on Jason Fortuny, it most certainly can affect content on ED (and has). In this particular case no, you can call the guy a Nazi all you please, nobody is gonna care about that. Now if you did something like use the guys name and went around posting as if you were him, making him look like a Nazi and then you took screen caps and uploaded them to ED as "proof"... that could potentially get you into trouble. Not the site necessarily, but for the person who did it. Like when Jason Fortuny got sued that only affected him. The stuff he uploaded to ED had to be removed, but otherwise ED wasn't legally liable (unless they had left the stuff up). --U Mad Bro 22:28, 17 January 2015 (EST)
Just...STFU.--Boudica 22:34, 17 January 2015 (EST)
- Just...do whatever you want Boudica. Seriously, whatever you like, do it. Upload child porn to ED and call it satire for all I give a shit. People like you are too thick headed and stupid to learn without becoming an eventual example of what not to do, so you just go right on with your head shoved up your ass and ignore all relevant evidence to the contrary. --U Mad Bro 22:40, 17 January 2015 (EST)
- You and I both know those are two very different things.Here's a favorite passage of mineby your standards, he could sue whoever wrote it if they didn't live in the U.S--Boudica 22:50, 17 January 2015 (EST)
- Actually he could sue them regardless of their location. In order to sue someone in cases like that you generally have to show two things. One, that it caused some level of financial damage and two, that it was intended to try and cause that damage. But proving that can be very difficult which is why slander/libel cases usually don't pan out for the prosecution, at least in the United States.
- You can also be counter-sued as well so it's not without its risks. In the whole of ED's history I don't think it's actually happened more than a half dozen times at most, at least as far as documented cases. It's not really a problem for ED though, it's mainly a potential problem for whoever uploads it.
- Like if you upload child porn and try and call it satire and the feds get interested they'll force Zaiger to hand over logs whether he wants to or not. In some respects you're protected on ED in that foreign entities don't really have much of any say about content on ED. For example police in the UK couldn't ordinarily force Zaiger to turn over any logs to them. However they could go to the feds and ask them for a favor and then the feds could do it. That's happened quite a number of times here in the past five years, although not on ED as of yet (it can work in reverse as well).
- If you're operating under the delusion that you can just do or say whatever you like under the guise of satire/parody (whether it is or not), think again...
- There are new cases like that popping up every day of the week. Free speech is a constant and unending battle, even in the United States. Like I said, you can generally get away with a lot more on ED than you can elsewhere, but you have no universal protection or guarantee and if you want to edit on ED you need to know you are on the proverbial front lines of a war against free speech. If you're a stupid teenager who thinks you can do or say whatever you like without consequence just because you're an American and "muh free speeches", well you're living in a bubble of ignorant naivete. --U Mad Bro 23:31, 17 January 2015 (EST)
- HI FRENZ --Likeicare 22:19, 17 January 2015 (EST)
This article needs the rebuttals by the real Ben Garrison complaining so people will get the joke. Thatdog 22:37, 17 January 2015 (EST)
Woke up to find discussion on this little article today. Yeah it's not finished yet. I was going to write more about his OHPI drama now that I've uploaded all the cartoons - to make it more satire than libel. This guy can't take a joke and backpedaled to support Orwellian hate speech laws while still calling himself a libertarian. He's a legend on /pol/ and I felt he needed his own article. 4chan's /pol/ has some beef with him because his caricature of moot was the trigger for the great Cuckening of December 2014, so he's more or less site history now.
--Leonardo Cockworthy 06:44, 18 January 2015 (EST)